Barack Obama October Surprise

13 Responses

1. ella

   October 11th, 2008 at 8:53 pm

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   I’m with Mac, I didn’t there was anything to this until now.

   If the donkey party will not do anything about running a candidate that is illegal…then the USSC needs to look into this now.

2. kathie

   October 11th, 2008 at 11:06 pm

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   I am an American citizen, I married an Australian. My children were born in Australia and registered at birth at the American Embassy, they also had Australian birth certificates. They always traveled on American passports. What does that make them? For Obama to get to Indonesia from Hawaii or from Kenya to America he had to have a passport. Any person born of an American Mother is considered an American citizen no matter where they were born. Some one needs to find out what passport he traveled on. How do you get that information.

3. Matt

   October 12th, 2008 at 4:05 am

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   Obama has produced it. You don’t just give into demands like that, there’s a process.

   http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

   Pictures are worth a thousand words.

   A lil background info on your beloved Philip Berg:

   http://www.yestodemocracy.com/yes_to_democracy_no_to_pu/2008/08/wingnuts-away-.html

   “So who is Philip J. Berg? He’s a former Deputy Attorney General of Pennsylvania; former candidate for Governor and U.S. Senate in Democratic Primaries; former Chair of the Democratic Party in Montgomery County, Pennsylvania; former member of the Pennsylvania Democratic State Committee; an attorney with offices in Montgomery County, PA and an active practice in Philadelphia, PA. In 2005 he was fined and sanctioned $10,000 for having committed a “laundry list of unethical actions.”

   “”Other attorneys should look to Mr. Berg’s actions as a blueprint for what not to do when attempting to effectively and honorably perform the duties of the legal profession,” Joyner wrote.
   “This court has grown weary of Mr. Berg’s continuous and brazen disrespect toward this court and his own clients. Mr. Berg’s actions … are an enormous waste of judicial time and resources that this court cannot, in good conscience, allow to go unpunished,” Joyner wrote.”

   He’s also a 9/11 “truther” and Clinton “supporter” ”

   Get a life guys, he’s a citizen no doubt.

4. Matt

   October 12th, 2008 at 4:07 am

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   You moderate comments ? What kind of weak blog is this ? I dare you to approve my fact checked post…. dare you.

5. Jon Huggins

   October 12th, 2008 at 5:21 am

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   Same here but with my parents. My mother is an US citizen and my father is a brit. I recieved my citzenship automatically.

6. EyeDoc

   October 12th, 2008 at 5:54 pm

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   Even if Obama was born in the US he became an Indonesian citizen and gave up US citizenship when he went to school in Indonesia. when he returned to the US, he would then be a naturalized citizen, not a natural born citizen. Once you give up being as natural born citizen you can never get it back. Naturalized citizens are NOT eligible to run for president.

7. Stephanie

   October 13th, 2008 at 1:16 pm

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   Matt – You’re argument is lame. Yet again, factcheck.org, which you reference is the same organization funded by the Annenberg Foundation which is at the center of the controversy with Bill Ayers (the known unrepentant terrorist) & Obama. Yeah, I guess I believe what they have to say….NOT!

8. CutizenFactFinder

   October 19th, 2008 at 6:34 pm

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   I start this post with the caveat that I am not a formal scholar of constitutional law. I do, however, take an interest in debunking false accusations. Legal proceedings are based upon facts, whereas Berg appears to present his case largely on unsubstantiated conjecture and emotion. In many instances, Berg makes specific claims based upon what he describes as his own beliefs, without even attempting to provide evidence.

   Berg presents a number of fallacies in his argument about Obama’s citizenship. I address two points here (Split into two postings due to length constraints and also limited only by time … the rest of Berg’s argument is just as baseless) to illustrate the flawed nature of his argument in relation to both logical construct and US immigration & nationality law. I base these on his YouTube presentation located at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOzFl-Gm_Kc. (Please be sure to note the last point in section 2 below, noting the burden-of-proof requirement stipulated in US law.)

   PART 1. Berg discusses Obama’s move to Indonesia, quoting Obama’s statement that he immediately entered school upon his arrival there. Berg then presents the argument that Obama’s stepfather either had to (a) adopt, or (b) acknowledge Obama, and goes on to show that school records indicate Obama’s stepfather filled out the school form, listing him as “Barry Soetoro, his nationality is Indonesian, and his religion is Islam.”

   Berg argues that, because (A) one had to be an Indonesian citizen to go to school, and (B) because Obama went to school there, then (C) he was an Indonesian citizen.

   Fallacy: Berg’s argument falsely applies the logic formula of “if A and B then C,” because (A) is not true: one does not actually have to be a citizen to go to school in Indonesia … the school only needs to believe that to be the case. Remember, this is Indonesia in the 1970s; how sophisticated do you think their verification system was?

   Reality: One did not have to be an Indonesian citizen to go to school in Indonesia; the school only needed to believe that the student was an Indonesian citizen. By filling out he paperwork, Soetoro duped the school system into believing this. The act of filling out the registration was a formality. A school registration form, however, does not grant one citizenship. Also, as a 100% Muslim state and home of the largest Muslim population, what else do you think Soetoro would have listed as Barack’s religion?

   Counterargument: If Obama ever became a citizen of Indonesia, where is the paperwork from the Indonesian Government showing his naturalization?

   PART 2. Berg states that, even if Obama were born in Hawaii as a natural-born citizen, he is no longer one because upon returning from Indonesia, he would have had to have gone through US immigration to regain his citizenship, making him “naturalized,” rather than “natural-born.”

   Fallacy 1: Berg bases his argument on the unsubstantiated assumption that Obama surrendered his US citizenship when he went to Indonesia; as noted in the above argument, this is not the case. Therefore, any argument about giving up his US citizenship, holding “dual citizenship,” or becoming naturalized are baseless.

   Fallacy 2: Even if one does renounce citizenship and re-applies for it at a later date, the conditions that define “natural-born citizen” do not change.

   Fact: The US State Department (http://travel.state.gov/law/ci…p_777.html) states that “unless and until a certificate of loss of nationality is approved by the U.S. Department of State, the oath of renunciation, even though signed by the individual is not/not legally effective in terminating the person’s U.S. citizenship.” As per US law (see below), Obama never renounced or surrendered his citizenship.

   Counterargument: Based on the requirements of US law (see below) for renouncing US citizenship, where is the formal renunciation that he would have had to file either in the US or at an embassy or consulate overseas to effect this? US law (see below) states that the burden of proof for any claim that someone had lost their citizenship falls upon the person or party claiming such loss occurred.

   =======================
   US Code Title 8, Chapter 12, Subchapter III, Section 1481 (see at Cornel Law – http://www.law.cornell.edu/usc…-000-.html) identifies the ways in which one can lose his or her US citizenship. I paraphrase below for brevity, but you can find the full text at the link.

   § 1481. Loss of nationality by native-born or naturalized citizen; voluntary action; burden of proof; presumptions

   (a) One can lose citizenship by:

   (1) Obtaining naturalization in a foreign state after having attained the age of 18

   (2) Taking an oath or making allegiance in a foreign state after having attained the age of 18

   (3) Entering or serving in the armed forces of a foreign state if such forces are engaged in hostilities against the US or if serving as a commissioned or non-commissioned officer

   (4) Accepting the duties of office in the government of a foreign state after attaining the age of 18

   (5) Making a formal renunciation of nationality before a diplomatic or consular officer of the United States in a foreign state

   (6) Making in the United States a formal renunciation of nationality

   (7) Committing an act of treason against, or attempting by force to overthrow, or

   (b) Whenever the loss of United States nationality is put in issue in any action or proceeding commenced on or after September 26, 1961 under, or by virtue of, the provisions of this chapter or any other Act, the burden shall be upon the person or party claiming that such loss occurred, to establish such claim by a preponderance of the evidence. Any person who commits or performs, or who has committed or performed, any act of expatriation under the provisions of this chapter or any other Act shall be presumed to have done so voluntarily, but such presumption may be rebutted upon a showing, by a preponderance of the evidence, that the act or acts committed or performed were not done voluntarily.
   =======================

9. Kevin

   October 24th, 2008 at 9:36 pm

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   Eveyone can talk all they want, it would be very simple to resolve this, Obama simply produces his original BC, gives access to his college records and if everything checks out, this all goes away. The DEMS tried to do this to MCcain and he produces his orignal BC, it was verified and case closed. Its really that simple.

10. ed

    October 29th, 2008 at 9:33 pm

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    McCain was born in Panama. So he’s not a natural born citizen either.
    The US constitution makes no special condition for individuals born in overseas military bases.

    Obama at least produced a document to prove he was born in the US.

11. Concerned Citizen

    October 30th, 2008 at 4:27 pm

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    Obama needs to give all of his records. My philosophy is, and has always been, if you’ve got nothing to hide, then why hide it. Obama, you need to give up your life history, birth certificate, medical records, etc. Let everyone know what your background is about. If you don’t, that’s your perogative, but your Aunt in Chicago is ready to talk, and then I can only hope that you get impeached for voter registration fraud, election finance fraud, and for not being an American citizen by definition of the Constitution, and hope that you will consider becoming an American by going through the proper process.

12. RIsEoben

    December 5th, 2008 at 12:32 am

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13. BIRDMAN

    March 8th, 2009 at 5:16 pm

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    I cant believe Philip Berg is even going through with this. As a lawyer he should know that the Constitution doesnt just say you have to be a Natural Born Citizen–>No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President;****the term “OR A CITIZEN OF THE UNITED STATES’ has not been excluded and therefore still valid. Some argue that “OR A CITIZEN” was only “AT THE ADOPTION” but where does it ever say that? I have searched for every ammendment, change, add-ons to the COTUS, and not one mention of “OR A CITIZEN” only to be acknowledged “AT THE ADOPTION”. So I have no Idea how Berg plans on getting away with his suit.